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The Long-Term Repository of Half-Ideas: Liam Gillick, Esther Schipper, and Nadine Zeidler •Mousse Magazine

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The Long-Term Repository of Half-Ideas: Liam Gillick, Esther Schipper, and Nadine Zeidler •Mousse Magazine × Share on:TropicalHomeWell-nighIssues Subscribe Newsletter Ipad Edition Advertise Publishing AgencyTropicalArchive Filter: Order: Most recent Oldest Category: CONVERSATIONS CURATORS ESSAYS EXHIBITIONS INTERVIEWS OTHERS PUBLISHING REVIEWSTropicalSearch:TropicalUsername Password Remember Me Mousse Magazine Search Follow Us Facebook Instagram Pinterest Twitter Archive Previous Gianfranco Baruchello at Mart, RoveretoTropical1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Previous Next CONVERSATIONS The Long-Term Repository of Half-Ideas: Liam Gillick, Esther Schipper, and Nadine Zeidler Share Facebook Linkedin Pinterest TwitterTropical1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Liam Gillick, “Were People This Dumb Before TV? A Curated Selection from the Graphic Archive 1990–2017” at Esther Schipper, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy: the versifier and Esther Schipper, Berlin. Photo: © Andrea Rossetti Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Andrea Crespo, “[intensifies]” at Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin, 2017 Courtesy the artist; Kraupa-Tuskany Zeidler, Berlin; Down and Ross, New York. Photo: © def image Liam Gillick, Esther Schipper, and Nadine Zeidler in conversation   Liam Gillick: Why does Mousse want us to have this conversation? Esther Schipper: I don’t know. Why do you think Mousse wants us to have this conversation? LG: It’s like breaking into a secret relationship. Why would we want to talk well-nigh our ideas in public? Maybe Nadine can tell us. Artists and galleries are complicated. ES: You and I have worked together for nearly thirty years. Not so many galleries have such long-lasting working relationships. I am often asked what it’s like. I don’t think this is the platform for us to talk well-nigh friendship, but I think it would be interesting to talk well-nigh how we’ve worked together. LG: Running a gallery ways you are going to have long relationships. It would be strange to unshut a gallery and decide to only work with people for six months. A gallery implies commitment. Nadine Zeidler: That’s what’s unconfined well-nigh it, I think. When you work in an institutional context you might have an encounter with an versifier for one exhibition that is super inspiring and very intense, but then you have to move on. As a gallery we met most of our artists very early in their careers, so their practices were developing and stuff shaped. You see how the work is evolving and you are super tropical with the versifier all the time. ES: If you want to do this seriously you have to trailblaze an versifier over a long period. Sometimes this is easy and sometimes it is difficult. There is increasingly and increasingly a difference between the gallery exhibition and selling art. A good exhibition introduces the versifier and their ideas much increasingly powerfully than just displaying a “range” of works for sale. LG: Both of you tend to work with people virtually you. There is a unrepealable logic to the megacosm of a community—a horizontal way of seeing things with artists virtually you, plane if they may be all moving in variegated directions. Is this unfluctuating to generations? When people think well-nigh Esther, they unchangingly imagine a unrepealable generation of artists. ES: We all met at the same time. It was without meeting Dominique Gonzalez-Foerster and Philippe Parreno and later on you and Angela Bulloch that I decided to make what I was doing into a gallery. LG: Nadine, how does it work with a younger gallery? Do your relationships with artists sally informally, or have they come through working together already? NZ: When we opened the gallery we could see that there was a young generation of artists doing something, but we were not enlightened yet of what it was exactly. There were new ideas and new visions. We wanted to provide a platform. We felt this urge to be part of a polity and provide a space to walkout and have discussions. LG: I’m sure both of you could have decided to work in institutions. I know Esther worked transiently at the Whitechapel. ES: It was a pre-curatorial age then. Basically working on an exhibition team meant having a classical art historical education and a very hierarchical and classical way of working in which I really didn’t see a place for myself. We as a generation were articulating something that had nothing to do with traditional museum structures. LG: Nadine, did you study art history? NZ: Yes, very classical, in Bonn and in Paris, and my first job was at the Kunstverein in Munich. When I was working there, it was a very experimental model, but the problem was we unchangingly had to frame things in a specific language to justify the exhibitions we wanted to make. In the end I wanted to be freer. In a private gallery you can just do things at your own risk. You don’t need to justify it to a cultural institution or a funder. LG: I have been in two or three exhibitions that attempted to reflect on the past twenty or twenty-five years, and there have moreover been publications looking at art of the 1990s, and one of the things that most don’t want to talk well-nigh is the role of the galleries. In fact, some deliberately stave the story of the galleries. For them, art unchangingly emerges from institutional radicality. This ways that, often speaking, by making the choices you made, you both had to winnow stuff outside some of the dominant neo-academic stories. ES: I often finger like the relative people are red-faced of. But we are unchangingly invited to be part of the planning of these institutional shows considering in the end someone needs to foot the bill. We are so much part of the system, yet no institution can dare to be as experimental as we are. NZ: It’s true, often the gallery is not mentioned when the history is written, but at some point maybe that will change, considering Esther is right, galleries are paying for a lot of production and giving a lot of structural support.Planeso, I would not want to be a curator in an institution just to wilt a part of art history. I think we all do what we do considering we want or have to do it. LG: A gallery for me ways a specific relationship with someone that involves a lot of trust, and at the same time the feeling that when you are not there, something is happening.Planeif you, the artist, are lying on the ground and having bad ideas, someone somewhere is talking well-nigh you or thinking well-nigh you. It is a rather romantic idea. NZ: The gallery provides a context, a professional infrastructure. Some older galleries tell me that things used to be increasingly experimental. LG: I’m unchangingly wary of saying that “things were increasingly experimental in the old days.” I think with Esther it was unchangingly a combination of stuff on top of things and stuff enlightened that the artists are moreover driving things and asking questions. When I first would visit Esther, it felt like there was someone steady at the wheel but the artists were constantly causing trouble. Maybe that’s still true. I don’t think galleries can be radical or inobtrusive without their artists. It really depends on how they work with people. ES: There was a big transpiration in the 1990s in what the art market was offering, and we had to therefore rethink the role of the gallery. Now we are not only ownership and selling. Our activities are vast. Part of that is to create a structure where we can help an versifier produce the work they want to make. NZ: When we opened our gallery, a lot of people came and saw that some artists used a new aesthetic. At some point people understood that something was happening and it made them curious. We could not explain everything, but there were questions stuff created and a new stimulating language that was interesting. LG: I like the idea of “interest” or a “quality of interest.” It is variegated from shock or intellectual inquiry or confusion. It ways a unrepealable marvel expressed in a particular form. Related Articles CONVERSATIONS The Long-Term Repository of Half-Ideas: Liam Gillick, Esther Schipper, and Nadine Zeidler (Read more) CONVERSATIONS Toxic Environments, Sensitivities, and Planetary Times: Susanne M. Winterling (Read more) CONVERSATIONS “Somewhere in Between. Contemporary Art Scenes in Europe” at BOZAR, Brussels (Read more) CONVERSATIONS Work on Paper Art Fair, Lugano (Read more) CONVERSATIONS Polyvocality: Evan Ifekoya (Read more) CONVERSATIONS Odysseus and the Bathers: Paul Chan (Read more) Mousse Magazine HomeAboutIssuesSubscribeNewsletteriPad EditionAdvertisePublishingAgencyTerms and Conditions Follow us: Facebook Instagram Pinterest Twitter Mousse Magazine and Publishing Corso di Porta Romana, 63, 20122 Milano, Italy T: +39 02 8356631 F: +39 02 49531400 E: info@moussemagazine.it P.IVA 05234930963 We use cookies to ensure that we requite you the weightier wits on our website. If you protract to use this site we will seem that you are happy with it.Ok